Old English (Ireland) - Collective Identity of The Old English

Collective Identity of The Old English

Historians disagree about what to call the Old English community at different times in its existence, and in how to define this community's sense of collective identity.

Irish historian Edward MacLysaght makes the distinction in his book, Surnames of Ireland, between Hiberno-Norman and Anglo-Norman surnames. This sums up the fundamental difference between "Queen's English Rebels" and the Loyal Lieges. The Geraldines of Desmond or the Burkes of Connacht, for instance, could not accurately be described as Old English as that was not their political and cultural world. The Butlers of Ormond, on the other hand, could not accurately be described as Hiberno-Norman in their political outlook and alliances, especially after they married into the Royal Family.

Some historians now refer to them as Cambro-Normans, and Seán Duffy of Trinity College, Dublin invariably uses that term rather than the misleading Anglo-Norman (most Normans came via Wales, not England), but after many centuries in Ireland and just a century in Wales or England it appears odd that their entire history since 1169 is known by the description Old English, which only came into use in the late sixteenth century. Some contend it is ahistorical to trace a single Old English community back to 1169 as the real Old English community was a product of the late sixteenth century in the Pale. Up to that time, the identity of such people had been much more fluid; it was the administration's policies which created an oppositional and clearly defined Old English community.

Brendan Bradshaw, in his study of the poetry of late sixteenth century Tír Chónaill, points out that in the Irish the Normans were not called Seanghaill ("Old Foreigners") there but rather they were called Fionnghaill and Dubhghaill. He argued in a lecture to the Mícheál Ó Cléirigh Institute in University College, Dublin that the poets referred to those of Norman stock who were completely hibernicised thus with the purpose of granting them a longer vintage in Ireland that they had (Fionnghaill meaning "fair-haired Foreigners", i.e. Norwegian Vikings; Dubhghaill meanng "black-haired Foreigners", i.e. Danish Vikings). This follows on from his earlier arguments that the term Éireannaigh as we currently know it also emerged during this period in the poetry books of the Uí Bhroin of Wicklow as a sign of unity between Gaeil and Gaill; he viewed it as a sign of an emerging Irish nationalism. Breandán Ó Buachalla essentially agreed with him, Tom Dunne and Tom Bartlett were less sure.

It was noted in 2011 that Irish nationalist politicians elected between 1918 and 2011 could often be distinguished by surname. Fine Gael parliamentarians were more likely to bear surnames of Norman origin than those from Fianna Fáil, who had a higher concentration of Gaelic surnames.